Daily Kos

I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

by NeoLotus

Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:07:13 PM PDT

I got this story from an email. I can't post it all and it's got pictures. Get the whole thing here.

This is a story that needs to get some serious passing around. I believe that Hurricane Katrina is our Kristalnacht. I've been hearing (reading) stories (some with pictures) the last few years about secret encampments enclosed with razor wire. This isn't one those places, but this story will definitely let you know what's in store. I am reminded of the words of Martin Niemoller: "First they came for ... Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak for me."  

If the fascism collection is still going on, this is one for that category.

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  •  GAAAAAAaaaaAaAaAaAahhhhhhhhhhhhh... (4.00 / 2)

    I don't like the "no leave" rule, but can sort of understand why -- in the early days -- such a policy would be instituted. If it remains, that's a problem and just plain stupid. Still, amidst the bizarre allusions to Kristalnacht and Niemollar's omnipresent and now cliched catch-all quote, all in the context of a camp -- admitted with it's faults! -- set up a mere week after the disaster, I must ask:

    Can a hurricane jump a shark?

    I must answer: yes.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:18:24 PM PDT

  •  oh please (none / 1)

    Did Hitler pass out debit cards?  No.  

    by lachisula on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:18:26 PM PDT

    •  The debit cards are our Dachau! (none / 1)

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:20:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No debit cards (none / 1)

        they changed their minds. It's gonna be checks. No, I don't know how folks are supposed to receive them without mailboxes, or cash them in the absence of banks.

        Let's get some Democracy for America

        by murphy on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:30:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  FEMA Checks are our Auschwitz! (4.00 / 2)

          it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

          by Addison on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:35:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  FEMA checks will (none / 0)

            paper over the consciences of Republican supporters and FOX watchers.

            Well, we gave them debit cards.  And we gave them checks, too.

            And as far as I can tell, they musta wasted all that.

            They ought to keep them in camps.  Yeah.  And use force to keep them there.  Why, the dirty ingrates rioted soon after they got there.  What's wrong with people like that?

            </snark>

            We need not think alike to love alike -- Ferenc Dávid

            by ogre on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 12:06:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're so fucking dumb... (none / 0)

              ...it's unbelievable. You're entire argument is a straw man conservative pitted against God only knows what argument statement I made. I'm not saying don't give them more. I'm not saying I agree with this. I'm saying it's not "our Kristalnacht." And if they had gotten NOTHING from FEMA you'd be whining about that.

              it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

              by Addison on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 12:09:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah but (none / 0)

      Did Hitler allow reporters into these camps?

      No -- and neither does FEMA.  Why not?

      Here's another holding pen in Colorado:

      http://blueowlsix.blogspot.com/2005/09/welcome-to-rockies-now-get-behind.html

      by playon on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:49:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So what? (3.00 / 2)

      You're in the camp... you're not ALLOWED to leave.

      What are you going to spend the money on your nifty debit card on?

      Housing?
      Food?
      Utilities?
      Clothing?

      No.  None of those are available as purchases.  You can't leave... you can't find a job.  You can't go home and rebuild.  You can't go back to your job.  You can't leave.  You can't go back and make work for others by being a customer in a deli, restaurant or department store.

      And so the debit card means nothing.  And when the funds don't get used, they'll just reabsorb the money and void the cards.  With Bushco's record with 9/11 and NYC promises... the cards will only be good for 90 days or so--and if I recall reading the link correctly, the you can't leave is for at least 5 months.

      Maybe you can get time off for good behavior.

      Or maybe it'll be like Manzanar.  And if you try to leave, why... you'll be shot.  Or sent to someplace where they REALLY make sure you don't leave.

      These people have not even been accused of a crime, and there is NO justification for locking them up.  None.  Zero.

      We need not think alike to love alike -- Ferenc Dávid

      by ogre on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 12:04:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are too allowed to leave... (none / 0)

        ...read the goddamn article. You can leave if you want, but you need to find another place to stay if you want to do that. I don't even fucking AGREE with that, as I said in my post. Fuck off.

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 12:06:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Isn't it curious that the debit cards (none / 0)

      for $2,000 is exactly the amount of money that is the maximum amount an individual can contribute to presidential candidates...Isn't it also curious that the billions appropriated yesterday go directly to FEMA with little or no oversight..??

      by boycottgop on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:34:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Amazing (none / 1)

    These people are AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!

    Recommended it... thanks for the link.

    by playon on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:21:10 PM PDT

  •  FEMA has been militarized (none / 0)

    under Bush.  Alex Jones has been talking about it for years.

    by reef the dog on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:22:51 PM PDT

  •  No. (4.00 / 3)

    This isn't it.

    Stay awake though.

    和平

    by aitoaster on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:23:49 PM PDT

  •  *You* got back? (2.50 / 2)

    So, you just got back and you just got this story in email? Which is it?

    We have always been at war with Eurasia

    by NotSoFast on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:27:01 PM PDT

  •  Looks like.... (none / 0)

    Jonestown and the 'Heaven's Gate' headquarters combined.

    Very creepy.

    ....Listen to Ded Prez....

    by Manix on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:29:27 PM PDT

  •  Wow (none / 0)

    All I can do is shake my head. I wonder how Mehlman's reach out to blacks is going or if Shrub is going to address the NAACP any time soon.

    by humphrey on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:32:21 PM PDT

  •  It's late at night and I'm going to pretend (4.00 / 5)

    I'm sleeping and just had a bad nightmare.

    by Southern Bird on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:36:31 PM PDT

  •  Holy Shit, Batman!! (4.00 / 2)

    Well, let's see. The Ok State Patrol is basically running that show under the aegis of a few FEMA hacks, who are probably falling over themselves to kiss the ass of the BushCo. cabal.

    Bunch of dislocated people surrounded by a bunch of militarized rednecks in a remote location.

    What could go wrong?

    I can hear the Gov of Okie on the horn with a BushCo. flunky; " Well, if we have to take a quota, lemme stick 'em where we don't have to look at 'em."

    BushCo: "Shoot as few as possible."

    I can't wait to see this blow up....

    "Wealthy the Spirit which knows its own flight. Stealthy the Hunter who slays his own fright. Blessed is the Traveler who journeys the length of the Light."

    by CanisMaximus on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:36:59 PM PDT

  •  Wonder if they will (none / 0)

    allow those that sign on the dotted line of those recruiting papers to leave this camp for boot camp?  Do they still get three square a day in the military?  

    What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

    by Marie on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:44:48 PM PDT

  •  You can check in -- but you can't check out -n/t (none / 0)

    by joan reports on Thu Sep 08, 2005 at 11:47:49 PM PDT

    •  Actually, (none / 0)

      The deal is that once you are there, you CAN leave, but you cannot come back.

      However, how easy would it be for it to become checking in but NOT checking out, except via a body bag.

      Also, I happened to find another blog about a place in Colorado. The folks can come and go, but it would be too easy to shut the gate and lock it.

      Making judgements without intellectual justification is prejudice. We do not act rightly because have virture, we have virtue because we act rightly.

      by NeoLotus on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 12:54:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Map of the... (4.00 / 2)

    surrounding area.

    From the story the only place name that was given was Davis, OK. No directions from town were provided in the story, unfortunately

    Additionally, here is the website for the Falls Creek Baptist Assembly, presumably the same place that this FEMA facility for evacuees has been established.

    A couple of facts:

    Falls Creek is the largest youth encampment in the world.

    There are 145 cabins at Falls Creek, each independently owned by Oklahoma Baptist churches or associations.

    I was unable to get exact direction to the place, even off the "official" site. Strange, that, eh? Secluded in the extreme.

    From the pictures it also appears the place is under construction. I wonder if the people being housed will be asked to "work" in assisting the Baptist Convention build their "camp"?

    Shades of The Shawshank Redemption, where Warden Norton hired out his "crews" to do work undercutting the normal hired labor in the area and pocketing the profits?

    People in Eurasia on the brink of oppression: I hope it's gonna be alright... Pet Shop Boys: Introspective

    by rgilly on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 12:22:29 AM PDT

  •  So, the camp is being "leased"... (none / 0)

    Who the hell is leasing this to the US Govt. so they can use it as an Internment Camp? Could that be the members of "Compassionate Conservatives" or the "Culture of Life"?

    What's with the 5 month timeline?  What do they intend to do with these innocent Americans after 5 months?  

    IMO, it is our responsibility to walk our brothers and sisters out of the darkness.  We are human beings witnessing some of the worst crimes on humanity.  These evil, maniacal madmen are not Americans.  They must be stopped.  We can't give up until we bring these monsters to justice.

    Peace.

    Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.-Einstein

    by fooj on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:43:48 AM PDT

  •  framing is off (none / 0)

    I can buy that the location depicted is a temporary housing facility for "refugees" (or as the non-fascists among us would say, "displaced American citizens who were fucked over by FEMA"), and that some of the regulations are going to be draconian, but whomever wrote the original text is jumping at shadows.  (the thing about everyone having the same thing or nothing, i believe the person mentioned fruit, was a common Vietnam grunt protocol, IIRC -- i.e., you have a hundred guys at the firebase, and resupply brings in 75 cans of soda--the soda doesn't get passed out). Thus, it's the mentality of the camp setup that is problematic, not that the camp itself is prima facie problematic viz. a detainment center per se.

    I certainly don't buy that this is a "detainment" camp; if anything... it's a quarantine set up.  But I'm not sure I buy that, either.  Most likely we can put the tinfoil hats away and say that FEMA has not one fucking clue how to do anything, and are going into the playbooks of some bullshit Cold War mentality. It's not a "detainment" camp if you can walk out the front door; that you can't come back is the shady part, if it's even true.

    I would be much more likely to buy a quarantine angle than a detainment angle, if the tin foil hat was on.  Which it isn't. Yet.

    "I want my country back!" - Howard Dean (proud member, reality-based community)

    by ziggy on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:48:52 AM PDT

    •  Agreed and I'm skeptical (none / 0)

      The author of the original (linked) post apparently turned down an NPR interview to discuss this.  Why?  Supposedly because NPR couldn't guarantee anonymity.  

      This report may be true, but I don't accept anything from anonymous sources without independent verification.   Also, why couldn't the son, father, etc... do the interview?  

      I'll accept that FEMA is planning on running these camps in a highly regimented fashion that will be comparable to a minimum security prison -- except that the "detainees" will be allowed to leave.  Some of the rules are clearly absurd -- and show extremely low levels of sympathy or empathy for the victims.  I am especially troubled by the measures designed to produce isolation among the victims and compound their dependance on FEMA.  

      Considering FEMA's track record, church groups or other private organizations should be running these camps.  These organizations should be able to request guard and police support as they feel necessary to establish security for everyone.  

      Ultimately, I think the title of your diary is extremely misleading.  These aren't detainment camps, although the levels of regimentation and isolation are extreme.  I also think you should attempt to confirm this report since your source is demanding anonymity.  

      by the ac on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:18:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Will these folks be allowed to register to vote... (none / 0)

    is a question that I have been having since reading yesterday that the power brokers in New Orleans have plans to rebuild the city leaving the poor out...People are seeing this kind of thing as a means to shift away from a Democratic base to a Republican base...Louisians was leaning Blue...

    So..with so many dislocated people everywhere..will they be allowed to register to vote in a place like the one described in this post..or after 5 months..will they be scattered relocated again..??

    by boycottgop on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:53:01 AM PDT

  •  Hey, just declare them enemy combatants (none / 0)

    and you can keep them locked up forever.

    by tavish on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:35:39 PM PDT

  •  Update to this... (none / 0)

    Ed Kostiuk
    Oklahoma State Dept of Health
    Emergency Management

    ...has joined the community to "respond."

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread169641/pg1

    I didn't realize how big this story had gotten until today. Thanks to dKOS people for caring.

    No signature this cycle is as important as electing Larry Kissell to Congress.

    by RANT on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 12:36:00 PM PDT

  •  thanks for the update, RANT (none / 0)

    I read the response and about 5 pages of that thread and it confirmed my initial impression ... really think some of the posters over there too quick to jump to conclusions --  and I believe the answer to isbushwired is(was) yes

    by the ac on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 03:51:43 AM PDT

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